First time with Rotory. No micro marring?

[Dozerboy]

So I pick up a Dewalt to tackle a bunch of scraches on my work truck. From everything I`ve seen I should be inducing micro marring, but I can`t detect any. It`s a white 2015 GMC truck, so maybe the color or clear hardness makes them hard to see. I think Im cutting pretty heavy with a LC yellow heavy cutting pad and PBs SSR2.5. After the cutting I hit an test area with the rotory, LC green polishing pad and PBs pro polish. I can`t detect much if any difference. What do y`all think? Surly I should be seeing a difference

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[Stokdgs]

So I pick up a Dewalt to tackle a bunch of scraches on my work truck. From everything I`ve seen I should be inducing micro marring, but I can`t detect any. It`s a white 2015 GMC truck, so maybe the color or clear hardness makes them hard to see. I think Im cutting pretty heavy with a LC yellow heavy cutting pad and PBs SSR2.5. After the cutting I hit an test area with the rotory, LC green polishing pad and PBs pro polish. I can`t detect much if any difference. What do y`all think? Surly I should be seeing a difference

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Congrats if you have Rotary corrected perfectly, if you have no experience.

What are you using for lighting ?

White is always the hardest color to read..

If you use the sun for example, it will reflect really clear glossy paintwork into your eyes if you are not careful..
Dan F

 

[Bill D]

I use an incandescent lamp in a dark garage to inspect white. I usually see the defects with it.

 

[Dozerboy]

Lol perfect I doubt, but I been using a DA for 15years so it`s not like I don`t have some practice.

Im doing it in my garage, so I tried checking in the dark with a few different LED lights. I will try incandescent bulb.

What`s everyone opinion of how agressive at LC yellow and SSR2.5 is? I`ve been using 2400rpms. After 2 cutting sessions I still had a bit of scraches. I have SSR3, but doubt it will make much faster of a dent in the scraches. I plan on trying some new compounds out (less dust) and am trying to see where I stand.

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[Stokdgs]

Lol perfect I doubt, but I been using a DA for 15years so it`s not like I don`t have some practice.

Im doing it in my garage, so I tried checking in the dark with a few different LED lights. I will try incandescent bulb.

What`s everyone opinion of how agressive at LC yellow and SSR2.5 is? I`ve been using 2400rpms. After 2 cutting sessions I still had a bit of scraches. I have SSR3, but doubt it will make much faster of a dent in the scraches. I plan on trying some new compounds out (less dust) and am trying to see where I stand.

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I looked up your products and both of them are not aggressive enough for heavy duty paint correction compounding..

The L/C Foam Yellow Pad is a CCS pad that says its for heavy duty work. I will personally never use any CCS, pads, etc., with holes in them. I want ALL the pad surface on the paintwork all the time..

I prefer a Flat Faced Pad for all work and I have used only Rotary Power for decades.

If you are running your Rotary at 2,400, how many seconds does it take to dry the product, pad, and turn it to dust ? You want to try to avoid that..

We used high speeds like that 50+ years ago because the pads, compound products, and paintwork back then were compatible.

Today`s paint is water based, not nearly as much of it in microns on the vehicle as before, and sometimes, is harder to correct, depending on the color and make of vehicle..

My process today, is to use way lower speeds, keep the pad and product a little moist, so they have more time to get acquainted with the paintwork, and do the work. And sometimes, I will put a lot of downward pressure on this 10lb machine to help it do the work faster if necessary..

If you want to correct the paintwork faster with the process I use above, then the Lake Country Purple Foam Wool Pad will definitely take the scratched paint off faster, but you have to be careful you don`t take too much paint off.

And the Purple Foam Wool Pad work will then need another foam pad and a polish, to finish the work and get great clarity and gloss..

Alternatively, you can perhaps try a different compound and polish product on your foam pads.. I see a lot of people here love the Griot`s line of compounds and polishes-- I have never used them...

https://www.autopia-carcare.com/griots-boss-fast-correcting-cream.html#.XlTD2zKQH3g
https://www.autopia-carcare.com/griots-boss-correcting-cream.html#.XlTDBDKQH3g
https://www.autopia-carcare.com/griots-boss-perfecting-cream.html#.XlTEFjKQH3g

If you have any of the 500w halogen work lights on stands, sometimes, they can help with some colors.. They just put out a lot of heat..

Dan F

 

[Accumulator]

Much as I like incandescent lighting for inspections, it won`t show rotary-induced holograms unless they`re really awful. THAT is the challenge with a rotary- avoiding those, especially the really light ones that are murder to spot. Only one of my LEDs is good for spotting those, and it`s not as good as the SunGun. Natural sunlight is good, but I`ve had to *really* mess around moving the vehicle so the sun hits it *JUST RIGHT* while a competent assistant does the inspecting. My wife and I have spent *HOURS* over the course of several days (only had brief periods when the sun was just right) chasing holograms that most people would probably never see, but neither she nor I wanted to drive it until they were 100% gone.

Dozerboy- None of the above means that you didn`t get it right! If so, congrats! If not, eh..just DA/RO `em away under the right lighting.

 

[Mike lambert]

Wipe the area with an alcohol and water mix to remove the fillers and look at clean paint to check it.

 

[Bill D]

Don’t different lights pick up things on different colors? For example, halogens work well for me with black but not as good as incandescent on white. I think you have to have quite the variety of different lights not to mention using sunlight to really spot stuff.

 

[re-tired]

you should be able to see them in the sunlight- easy & no cost

 

[Dozerboy]

Thanks for the tips guys. I tried yalls suggestions and didn`t see anything. Damn white is so bright in direct sun didn`t help, but lm going to look again a little later. With what Dan said about my products I probably didn`t get anything to crazy.

Ya Dan I`m going to invest in different pads and products. I think I will stick with foam pads. I just don`t trust using wool/MF on paint. I just wanted to use what I had on hand just in case I decided the rotory ain`t for me. I wasn`t to happy about getting the speed up that high, but that`s what it took to get the correction I needed. PBs was dusting pretty quick I went through a 2oz of product on just my test on my hood. It`s known for dusting bad thought. The only thing I noticed about the PBs Pro polish (oil based?). Is that it would get really thick and caused the pad to hop more. I should probably invest in something like you said to keep the pad damper. Pad primer or something.

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[Stokdgs]

Thanks for the tips guys. I tried yalls suggestions and didn`t see anything. Damn white is so bright in direct sun didn`t help, but lm going to look again a little later. With what Dan said about my products I probably didn`t get anything to crazy.

Ya Dan I`m going to invest in different pads and products. I think I will stick with foam pads. I just don`t trust using wool/MF on paint. I just wanted to use what I had on hand just in case I decided the rotory ain`t for me. I wasn`t to happy about getting the speed up that high, but that`s what it took to get the correction I needed. PBs was dusting pretty quick I went through a 2oz of product on just my test on my hood. It`s known for dusting bad thought. The only thing I noticed about the PBs Pro polish (oil based?). Is that it would get really thick and caused the pad to hop more. I should probably invest in something like you said to keep the pad damper. Pad primer or something.

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Amigo !
I have also used only good Lake Country Foam pads forever..

Saw the Microfiber pad come to be long ago, tried it and while it could correct pretty fast with my Makita on lower speeds, I did not like the finish afterward, which of course, required a foam pad and a polish to bring the clarity and gloss to the highest level..

Also did not want to have to lug around an air hose to clean it after each pass, have the compressor turning on all the time, blowing that dead paint product exactly where, and then how long does one microfiber pad last before it`s worn out ?

I am pretty sure a good foam pad even on a rotary, working something really hard like old, dirty, airplane paint, will last much longer than the little fibers on a microfiber pad.. But that`s just me..

If you want to stick to Lake Country pads, I have found one line that has been my favorite since it was invented perhaps sometime after 2005...
It is called the Lake Country Hydro-Tech line, and the Cyan (Blue) foam pad can really work hard with even something as abrasive as Meguiars 105 compound and still finish down really well.

This pad has a type of closed cell foam that does not absorb liquid very fast, so it will (if you wipe it down with a towel often), go a long time before you have to change it out for a new one or a used, clean, dry one..
The only other pad they make in this line for correction or polish is the Tangerine (Orange) pad, and it is really good for using to clarify heavy duty compounding, with a polish..

This Tangerine pad is not going to be as aggressive as the Cyan Blue one, on purpose, and it can always give you a finer, clearer, glossier, result, if worked correctly..

I like having to accomplish perfect, perfectly clear, glossy, correction work with only 2 pads on my Makita.. Nothing like simplifying life !!

The product I like to use and have used it for years, to keep the pad, product, and paint "just" moist enough to work a long time, and then give great results, has always been Chemical Guys Polishing and Buffing Pad Conditioner..

It`s simple, not too expensive, and has never given me issues with any product, my pads, or any paint type.. Yes, it may just be one of their zillion "quick detailers", etc., but I am not interested in going down that rabbit hole ever.. It has proven itself to work for me for well over 15 years, and I`m good with that..

For my needs, I never allow any product to dry to the point that it blows dead dry dust everywhere.. I hate the clean up of that, so I just do not allow it to happen ! You can find the balance for this with practice.. Every vehicle`s paint, the product, pad/s, technique, used, can make this part a sliding scale, but it is not difficult to get it..

The Lake Country Purple Foam Wool Pad has been around longer than 10 years for sure and it works really fast on any paint with a Rotary.. I have used it on a lot of really trashed paint vehicles with a really heavy duty compound, and then a medium foam pad with a polish and achieved beautifully clear, glossy, paint with no defects in it.. But I also have decades of time served on the machine..

It can be used safely, and especially now with Total Thickness Gauges, I measure a spot, work it, wipe it, measure again in Microns, and can see what I have removed with that set of passes..

With all things "Detailing," one has to be very flexible, innovative, and wanting to work hard to achieve the highest results.. Of course, anywhere on that scale will always be fine for each person`s plan..

I tried to find that Chemical Guys Polishing and Buffing Pad Conditioner at the Autopia Store here, but they do not sell it.. I found it at the Chemical Guys Wacky Website or on Amazon for the same price, $9.99 a bottle..

Autopia does sell the L/Country Hydro-Tech Pads, and of course a lot of other pad choices..

I`m born and raised in Texas; left to go participate in the 2 wars going on in 1967-1973, and ended up in Northern California, then the Pacific Northwest, and then back to NorCal..

I will always love the awesome Mexican food and Bar B Que anywhere in San Antonio, and all places N,S,E,West !

Love the 80mph speed limit I find on I-10 after getting through El Paso on the way to San Antonio.. Even with that high a speed limit, I still am amazed to still see people pulled over!

Good luck with your project ! You will get this figured out - you are a Texan !!!

Dan F

 

[Vanquish]

It is not impossible to finish down with a rotary. But I don’t think the combination you are using is enough to tackle the scratches. A heavier compound would be a good start. The PB is more of a mild polish than anything and I’m not 100% sure it doesn’t have filler. Menzerna line would be a good choice for rotary use.

With the lightning if you can find a 2500-3500k light source that will show your true results. Also the high rpm is not necessary. I will rarely go above 1000 - 1100 rpm. You will get the same results with less holograms at lower rpm range

 

[Dozerboy]

Awesome guys thanks for the tips!


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[Accumulator]

Don’t different lights pick up things on different colors? For example, halogens work well for me with black but not as good as incandescent on white. I think you have to have quite the variety of different lights not to mention using sunlight to really spot stuff.

Yes, that`s my experience too, but *not* when it comes to holograms. Those simply require some type of point-source illumination, and while sunlight does work OK it`s not as demanding as some artificial (point-source) lights used in an otherwise dark environment.

With the lightning if you can find a 2500-3500k light source that will show your true results.

Guess that`s a YMMV situation; I`ve never found the color of the light to matter at all with regard to holograms.

For my needs, I never allow any product to dry to the point that it blows dead dry dust everywhere..

Same here! With the one expection of (the old) 1Z Hi-Gloss, which I use used?) to burnish already-corrected finishes. That one I`ve "worked to powder" on Audis and that delivered the best gloss I`ve ever achieved. But you don`t hear the expression "work to powder" the way you did decades ago, and for good reason.

 

[RaskyR1]

A few weeks in the hot summer sun usually reveals any holograms that maybe have been concealed from polishing. I know I`ve been humbled a few times back in the day that way. Depending on polishes used, often IPA and other solvent wipe downs aren`t enough to remove any filling from them and with the higher heat produced from the rotary swelling is a good possibility too.

As others mentioned though, various light sources is key. I find standing back further with the light helps too.

2400 RPM is a bit high IMO for most of today polishes/compounds. I`m usually no more than 1800, usually closer to 1500 and even lower for final finish passes.

 

[Accumulator]

..2400 RPM is a bit high IMO for most of today polishes/compounds. I`m usually no more than 1800, usually closer to 1500 and even lower for final finish passes.

Interesting, things have changed since the final time I ran the Rotaries (well, maybe not for the final finishing, but generally..).

 

[RaskyR1]

Yeah, we used to run them at 3000rpm back in the early 90`s. That was volume/body shop work though. Today it`s work smarter, not harder.

 

[mc2hill]

Thanks for the tips guys. I tried yalls suggestions and didn`t see anything. Damn white is so bright in direct sun didn`t help, but lm going to look again a little later. With what Dan said about my products I probably didn`t get anything to crazy.

I have found the darker the surroundings the better I can see swirls. I have had the best luck in the garage at night with halogen lights or 5000K led. Turn off the other lights and the true condition of even white is evident.
I have used LED light bulbs on a photo stand, and recently picked up the Astro Pneumatic version of the Scan Grip flood light, which is great to work with.

 

[Accumulator]

I have found the darker the surroundings the better I can see swirls..Turn off the other lights and the true condition of even white is evident..

Yes, exactly! That`s basically how I inspect everything, and not just vehicles, for marring.

For major defects, especially on lighter colors, I`ll go about it differently, but those are flaws that I can readily see, and I`ll still switch back to "dark environment/point-source lighting" once I`ve made some significant progress. Seeing flaws that`re so bad that they`re *texture* issues is just different, at least for me.

 

[Dozerboy]

Thanks for the tips guys. I took the rotary to my wife’s dark metallic blue Tahoe last weekend and it looked great to me afterwards. I’ll never use my DA again.


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