Noob here, please critique my swirl removal plan

**wifehatescar** · 10-12-2003,ï¿½10:02 AM

I`ve got some heavy swirling on my Milano red integra that my z5 did nothing on. Here`s my plan of attack, please lmk if you see any glaring issues (note the car has some Zaino on it already):

(use pakshap MF towels throughout)

dawn wash

3m FCRC 39002 by hand with pakshak foam pad

water/rubbing alcohol wipedown

3m SMR 39009 by hand with pakshak foam pad

water/rubbing alcohol wipedown

z1

z5

z2

additionally, I have 4 questions (sorry

):

1. do I need to clay before the fcrc or will the abrasives clean the paint the same as clay?

2. what should I dampen the foam pad with? (distilled water, z6, ?)

3. Would another *3M* product ( i prefer 3m only since it`s readily available) need to be used after the SMR but before the zaino?

4. Is a red car considered dark or light??? The 39009 is for "dark cars"

Thanks!

**fidelfs** · 10-12-2003,ï¿½10:57 AM

3m FCRC 39002 by hand with pakshak foam pad

I think you don`t need something abrasive as compound. Try something mild as Megs DACP.

3m SMR 39009 by hand with pakshak foam pad

This looks ok. but I don`t know if that product has fillers. If there are fillers they will disapear and the swirl comeback.

z1

z5

If you use Z1 don`t need z5 and vice versa.

1. do I need to clay before the fcrc or will the abrasives clean the paint the same as clay?

Don`t use the compounding but anyway you need to clay.

2. what should I dampen the foam pad with? (distilled water, z6, ?)

You can use distilled water before Zaino and Z6 when you are applying Zaino.

3. Would another *3M* product ( i prefer 3m only since it`s readily available) need to be used after the SMR but before the zaino?

3M Perfect-Itï¿½„ III Show Car Finishing Glaze, PN 39013

4. Is a red car considered dark or light??? The 39009 is for "dark cars"

I have a red car myself. I would consider red a border line depending of what kind of red. Mine is a torch red and I seen darker red that my car.

Back to 39002 I would prefer use 3M Perfect-Itï¿½„t Foam Polishing Pad Glaze Swirlmark Remover, PN 39809. Compoun is for worse problem than swirls.

:xyxthumbs

**wifehatescar** · 10-12-2003,ï¿½12:33 PM

umm, z1 must be used before z5 or z2 every six months per the zaino website.

I have been reading some other posts and most people it seems use the SMR on swirls since it is an abrasive. I`m not sure whether it has fillers or not make a big difference.

So would you recommend I just use the 39009? I`m not sure if the 39809 is more or less abrasive than the 39009?

**fidelfs** · 10-12-2003,ï¿½01:06 PM

This is brom Zaino web site.

ZFXï¿½„ can be used with any of our Show Car Polish products, including Z-2ï¿½„, Z-3ï¿½„ and Z-5ï¿½„. Plus, ZFXï¿½„ makes using Z-1ï¿½„ Polish Lok unnecessary on cars that have been clayed and thoroughly cleaned with Dawn dishwashing liquid.

Using ZFXï¿½„ in place of Z-1ï¿½„ Polish Lok will reduce drying time, increase gloss factor, extend durability level, and instantly cure to allow multiple immediate coats! No more waiting between coats!

Filler are what the word says. It will fill the swirl not remove it. That is ok if you will use a wax system. If you use Zaino and wash dawn the car those filler will be remove them therefore the swirl will show up again.

39009 is a polish not a compound. It is not more abrasive. You have to use a compound after wet sanding. Polish will remove the swirls but don`t use a filler with Zaino.

I am using a SRM with my car but I am using one without fillers 3M PIII Machine Glaze. Make a search about compound and you will see the difference between compound and polish.

Read this about wetsanding and compounding.

**wifehatescar** · 10-12-2003,ï¿½01:14 PM

I never said I was using ZFX so I stand by the fact I need z1 before z5 or z2.

I know what a filler does, problem is like you I`m not sure what 3m products have fillers and which ones don`t. What I`m looking for is a 3m product(s) that has no fillers.

Can anybody help on this one?

**fidelfs** · 10-12-2003,ï¿½01:21 PM

This is from Zaino

APPLICATION INSTRUCTIONS

Z-5ï¿½„ Show Car Polish is very easy to use. There`s no need to rub hard or use a machine.

Thoroughly wash your car. For best results, it is critical to enable Z-5ï¿½„ Show Car Polish with ZFXï¿½„ Flash Cure Accelerator Additive. See ZFXï¿½„ Flash Cure Accelerator Additive for details.

Apply a thin coat of Z-5 to your entire car using a 100% cotton cloth or applicator pad. On top panels, use front-to-back hand motions. On side panels, use up-and-down hand motions. This helps improve reflectivity. Heavy rubbing is not necessary.

Use a clean, 100% cotton, made in the USA towel to buff off Z-5 and reveal the hidden beauty of your paint.

If swirl marks remain, wait 24 hours and apply a second coat of Z-5.

As you become more familiar with Z-5ï¿½„ Show Car Polish application, one eight ounce bottle will do a Corvette 20 times. The key is even and thin layers.

The best of Zaino is you can use Z5 and with any product. It is best with ZFX. If Z5 is use to remove swirls you already did it with your SMR. There is no reason to use it for that motive. It is ok if you want to have a different look.

39809 does not have fillers. 39009 has fillers.

**fidelfs** · 10-12-2003,ï¿½01:23 PM

BTW :welcome to Autopia

**wifehatescar** · 10-12-2003,ï¿½01:34 PM

Thanks.

My main thinking was z5 may cover up the most minor swirls after the 3m compounds. Anyway, I already ordered more so I guess I`ll use it.

Will not be using ZFX as I have heard some mixed reviews so I will be using the z1 before the z5/z2. Would you agree that is correct then?

I have read multiple people on this forum using FCRC to remove swirls/scratches so I`m still not sure why you say it is too aggressive?

**fidelfs** · 10-12-2003,ï¿½02:11 PM

Well,

Like I said Zaino is interchangeable. It is compatible between products so you will be fine.

I am trying to follow a criteria to try first with less aggressive to remove them if that won`t work I will step up. Compound for me is more than swirl remover please don`t misundertand this the swirls will disapear but also part of your clear cote. That is why I use polishes. DACP is fairly available in car paint shops. Many pros like scottwax and NY Detailer are using it with good results to remove swirls.

Don`t expect to much from Z5/swirls. IMHO don`t hide swirls at all. it will give a more deep shine than Z2 but Z2 reflections is better.

You don`t have to finish with Z2, try if you like Z5 at the end. Remember to use Z6 between layers.

Enjoy Zaino.

:xyxthumbs

**CRXSi90** · 10-12-2003,ï¿½04:16 PM

Do you already have the 3M abrasive products? If so, try them out. Since you are working by hand, I think your plan sounds OK.

I was trying to look and see how the abrasivness of those products compare, but my eyes went buggy...gotta go look at something other than a computer screen!

:shocked

Kevin

**wifehatescar** · 10-12-2003,ï¿½06:40 PM

Yes I have the 39009 SMR and the 39002 FCRC. I tried a small spot on the car today, first with the fine cut for about 30 seconds, then with the swirl remover for 30 seconds. It looked better (I think). I`ll have to try a larger spot on the car to tell for sure.

My thinking is, doing it by hand, it would be pretty hard to mess something up. The 3m fine cut is the most abrasive product I plan on using.

**Deanski** · 10-12-2003,ï¿½08:26 PM

Just so you know... 3M PIII-FG has carnuba in it, so it is NOT compatable with Zaino.

I would go with Megs Hand Polish or Menzerna FP as the last polish/glaze before using Zaino.

You still need to remove all oils left from polishes prior to Zaino, a spray of 50/50 water/alcohol to go over the finish first, or use Megs APC+ 64:1.

Then you can apply Z1/Z5.

Regards,

Deanski

**CRXSi90** · 10-12-2003,ï¿½09:15 PM

I agree that removing the oils from the polishes you use is an important step if using Z. You can also check and see how your swirl removing work is going if you do this as you go along.

This is something I meant to type earlier, but didn`t. If I recall correctly, foam pads aren`t the most agressive medium to work with. If my memory serves me right, Scottwax, a professional detailer who does all his work by hand, uses 100% cotton terry cloths for swirl removal.

Originally posted by Patrick

Scott, why a terry cloth as opposed to a foam applicator ?

Originally posted by Scottwax

I can maintain more even pressure with a terry cloth towel, which is important with more abrasive cleaners and terry cloth has more cutting power on it`s own than foam and the deep nap helps hold any surface material (no matter how slight) away from the paint.

hope that gives some good info.

and this might make you think twice about swirl removal by hand...

http://www.scottwax.com/october/Oct_...s_muscular.jpg

from here: http://www.autopia.org/forums/showth...emoval+by+hand

"I use foam hand pads for light polishes and wax, and terry cloth towels folded into 1/8s (and sides changed after each panel) for stronger polishs/cleaners. Just like with a buffer, you have to work the product until nearly clear and dry. "

**wifehatescar** · 10-13-2003,ï¿½07:51 AM

Thanks for the help guys.

I may just put on some more Z this Fall and then wait until spring to tackle the swirling with a PC. I would hate to start by hand and then end up with a half-a$$ job. I guess I`m in over my head more than I thought.....and there may only be one more weekend when it`s over 60 deg. here in MI. Maybe I`ll try one section of the car just to see how it comes out.

Really, I`m still a little fuzzy on what products to use for swirl removal. ie. finding out what ones have no fillers, wax, etc so they are most compatible with the Z.

**Deanski** · 10-13-2003,ï¿½09:26 AM

For my SC430, I used 3M PIII-MG followed by Menzerna-FP.

Washed car to remove oils and applied Zaino Z5 then Z2

You can use Megs DACP, SFP, Hand Polish.

It all depends on how bad the finish is. If it`s minor, skip the DACP and go with SFP or 3M PIII-MG on a polish pad, followed by Megs Hand Polish for that mirror shine! All that`s left is to prep the finish for Zaino, IE: No oils... You can wash the car with Dawn or Megs APC+ at 64:1 or Alcohol/water mix 50/50. Your choice!

If you get streaking with Z5, DON"T USE Z6 TO TRY AND REMOVE STREAKS!

Mix up some Z7 wash (1/2 capfull and 12oz water) in a spray bottle. Mist the area that has streaks, wipe, NO MORE STREAKS!

The newer Z5 seems to streak slightly, no big deal as it`s easy to resolve.

If you get bored looking at Zaino reflection, you can always add a wax on top to deepen it. Tired of the wax? Just wash it again with the APC+ or alcohol/water mix and add more Zaino when dry.

Regards,

Deanski